Jeep Wagoneer Forum banner

Is it time to Lemon the car?

2642 Views 39 Replies 10 Participants Last post by  benoh75
In June 2022, I ordered a Wagoneer L S3 4x4. We were told we should expect it around Sept. October comes around but no word about production yet. On Halloween, we went to the dealer and purchased a Wagoneer S2 they had in stock because we had family coming in from out of state for the holidays. Shortly after I have dead battery issues. Car had about 400 miles. The dealer says its because I left a device plugged in. They ran a software update to fix it. You cannot leave an OBD powered dash cam, it kills the batteries also. It's been a few weeks and we finally take the car on the highway, only been on surface streets up until now. The first time we get up to speed it feels like the rear wheel is shaking. The next day I take it to the dealer and they balance the tires and send me on my way. A week later when we get on the highway the shake is still there. Starts at 82 and gets gradually worse until 87. I take it in, they road-force balance the tire. I take it for a shakedown right away when I leave the dealership... no good. I let the service guy know. They send me to a different shop in case their road-force machine was out of alignment. Still no good. I leave my car at the shop for a thorough inspection. They send me out in a loaner Wagoneer series 2. The loaner drives perfectly so I know it's just mine that is broken. They call me back to test drive the car some time later, but the shake is still there. I am told they retorqued all the nuts and bolts. Still no good. A few weeks later they have put on new Pirelli's, no go on that one either. So by now, a couple of months have passed. It has 1500 miles on the odometer and we have made 5 car payments. I went to the dealership to discuss them buying the car back because this one isn't going to work for us. I also received an update from Jeep saying my Series 3 L was going into production. The dealership contacted corporate and now corporate is saying there is nothing wrong with the car. They say that vibration is within spec. They apparently used a vibration-sensing machine and is fine. I tell them it is not fine because I drove a loaner that was fine, and mine is not fine. My wife said she will not get in the wagoneer with our 2 babies because in her mind if they couldn't fix it by now it must be something extensive. She no longer feels safe for us to drive another mile in that car.

Corporate said they will give me 5k compensation and EP pricing for another vehicle purchase. So I did the math... looks like I out a lot of money since this series 2 has depreciated so much sitting in the dealer shop. Also, the 5K compensation doesn't even get us back to pay off the loan because it has lost 10k more in value. I don't feel I should have to endure the loss when I was sold a bad car that I was not able to use.

I went to the dealer and spoke to my sales guy. Filled him in on what corporate said. Looks like his manager wants to buy back at 54k. KBB and NADA says i should be around 60k. I paid 72k for the car. I told him I want to be able to walk away from the series 2 like it never happened. And I will pick up my series 3. I've owned 2 RAM 1500's and a Promaster since 2017. I don't keep my car past 100k miles. If they come at me at 54k... maybe I should be walking away from the brand altogether.

I need some advice. Should I get a lemon lawyer? This step would most likely burn a bridge with my dealership. I would most likely not be moving forward with my Series 3 purchase as I won't be able to buy another car until the old one is settled.
See less See more
  • Like
Reactions: 1
21 - 40 of 40 Posts
Have you had a loaner?!? Ours was there for 2 months and we said to Lemon it after the 30 days. They told us they can’t until they have the service records. We didn’t have the car back, so we couldn’t get the service records. Then, when we finally got it back, they cut Nov 28-Dec 15 off of the records. In other words, it sat in the parking lot for a few weeks and THEN they decided to look at it and put it in their system. We got it back Jan 6 btw. No loaner the entire time. No matter what, it should not happen with a brand new car, especially at this price point.
Yes, I have a loaner. My service advisor gave me a loaner when he knew the shop would be keeping the car for a few days. I had a Wagoneer loaner for about 2 weeks then they gave me a Cherokee. The Cherokee has a small interior and has been a real hassle as I have to haul around 2 baby seats and all the baby gear you can imagine.
Sounds like Nicole may need to find another place to work that is not in customer retention, haha. Dante, our concierge, was fine, but let’s be serious, I was without a NEW vehicle for 64 days of my first year and 50+ of them I didn’t have the “Wagoneer 10 promises” loaner. They should have more power and should have to force service centers that can’t perform to move them to those that can.
While it hasn’t been finished yet, in GA the deduction is based on a formula that goes from the first date of service for the issue ( which for us was at less than 5000). My most blatant issue, among others still unresolved) has been the back gate won’t close and then the battery dies. I’ve had to leave my dying father’s house in a hurry because roadside assistance came to jump it off and I had to get it to a service center before 4:30 for them to take it. I’ve driven to work multiple times with all of the interior lights on hoping my children’s backpacks and bat bags don’t fall out on our 30 minute drive knowing it’ll be dead when I go to leave work (Dante told me I could Uber if I had to. Really, Dante???? Let’s go get all three of my kids at three different schools and take them and pick them up from their practices and games in that Uber too!) I digress. Hopefully, the law in GA will hold them accountable and we shouldn’t be out too much….Fingers crossed for all of us!
The 2nd to worst part. I WANT to love it. It is the prettiest car I’ve owned and the best looking SUV on the market and I can’t decide on one I like the looks of as much as I love the look of my Wagoneer.
Thank you for your response. You reminded me I should get copies of my service records from the dealership. I will have to stop by Monday and grab everything they have. Maybe grab some paperwork out of the Wagoneer too while I'm there.
I agree with you, it is a good-looking vehicle. I'm not into the super modern look of the new Suburban or Escalade even though I have owned 2 Suburbans and an Escalade.
Thank you for your response. You reminded me I should get copies of my service records from the dealership. I will have to stop by Monday and grab everything they have. Maybe grab some paperwork out of the Wagoneer too while I'm there.
I agree with you, it is a good-looking vehicle. I'm not into the super modern look of the new Suburban or Escalade even though I have owned 2 Suburbans and an Escalade.
I have been following your "saga" and hoping I will not have issues like that when I get mine. This advise comes from an old, fat, bald guy, so take it with a grain of salt. At some point you may want to lick your wounds and move on. Even if you are right there is no common sense when it comes to the law. You may be right but the system is a joke. Once you go down the rabbit hole, you are at the mercy of the system. Attorneys and judges do not care if your case drags on. Unload the vehicle, and concentrate on your family. At the end of the day 15K will be a rounding error over the entirety of you life. The stress is not worth it. I have been there and know how you feel.

Good luck which ever road go down.
I have been following your "saga" and hoping I will not have issues like that when I get mine. This advise comes from an old, fat, bald guy, so take it with a grain of salt. At some point you may want to lick your wounds and move on. Even if you are right there is no common sense when it comes to the law. You may be right but the system is a joke. Once you go down the rabbit hole, you are at the mercy of the system. Attorneys and judges do not care if your case drags on. Unload the vehicle, and concentrate on your family. At the end of the day 15K will be a rounding error over the entirety of you life. The stress is not worth it. I have been there and know how you feel.

Good luck which ever road go down.
Trust me, I have no faith in lawyers as their job is to interpret the law "read between the lines". I do have faith in law and accordingly the intent carries much weight. 15k is alot of money and over my lifetime I will have mismanaged and mishandled many times that amount so I'm really not losing sleep or stressing over this one hiccup in my life. If or when it does come back my wife and kids will steer clear of that potential deathtrap. I will keep posting if anything comes of it... or doesn't. BTW, I too am old and fat. Not bald so I can definitely see the light dusting of pepper in my hair. As my wife puts it... turning into a grumpy old man.
Trust me, I have no faith in lawyers as their job is to interpret the law "read between the lines". I do have faith in law and accordingly the intent carries much weight. 15k is alot of money and over my lifetime I will have mismanaged and mishandled many times that amount so I'm really not losing sleep or stressing over this one hiccup in my life. If or when it does come back my wife and kids will steer clear of that potential deathtrap. I will keep posting if anything comes of it... or doesn't. BTW, I too am old and fat. Not bald so I can definitely see the light dusting of pepper in my hair. As my wife puts it... turning into a grumpy old man.
I am staying tuned into this . It's OK to be a little grumpy you can only be nice for so long.
Good luck
Have you had a loaner?!? Ours was there for 2 months and we said to Lemon it after the 30 days. They told us they can’t until they have the service records. We didn’t have the car back, so we couldn’t get the service records. Then, when we finally got it back, they cut Nov 28-Dec 15 off of the records. In other words, it sat in the parking lot for a few weeks and THEN they decided to look at it and put it in their system. We got it back Jan 6 btw. No loaner the entire time. No matter what, it should not happen with a brand new car, especially at this price point.
This is EXACTLY what happened to me. I finally got them to buy it back, but this whole experience is horrendous. I am looking for something else to buy, but there isn't anything really as exciting for the price point. If the service was better, I would have seriously considered another GW - but the service killed it.
  • Like
Reactions: 2
Went to the dealership yesterday and picked up all the service records on the vehicle. Looking back, this vehicle was plagued with issues since the start. The battery issue, center screen issue. Multiple updates and reprograms, replaced fuses and batteries too? I don't see why a fuse would need replacement on a car under 150 miles but batteries I can understand as I had another vehicle that had the auto start/stop battery die from letting it sit unused for too long. Anyways, the current issue was discovered and dropped off at the dealership at 398 miles. I am told the Lemon'ing is calculated from start of issue, so I will lose 398 miles of use from the car. That is just crazy that FCA thinks the car is fine when I have not had my car since 398 miles.
I completely see what you are saying. Another dealership may want to pay more to earn a customer, especially one that is purchasing 2 vehicles. I have already considered it. My point was that I have a vehicle that has lost about 15k in value while sitting at the dealership for repairs which I don't feel I should take on the burden. I am stuck on the principle.
you gotta get past your hurt feelings first. Believe me when I tell you, nobody gives a fiddlers f*** about your feelings especially a car dealership. It’s like being pregnant, it’s a done deal. I’m rather certain you don’t know a single sole that’s made near the new car purchases that I have so what I’m saying is, LISTEN UP! You can whine on all the forums you care to and it might make you feel better or potentially worse just wallering in it like a pig in mud.
Your chance is here right now, the last week of the month all those dealers that haven’t met their quota are praying for customers to walk in. Here is a plan that is something to consider.
1. Make a list of what vehicles would be a suitable replacement.
2. Get on cargurus and find the dealerships near you that have vehicles in stock that suit you.
3. Make your way to the stores that have in stock what you might like to buy, Again IN STOCK! There won’t be no bargain on a new order or a locate no matter what the lying ass salesman leads you to believe.
4. As soon as you make contact with a salesman, tell him or her you are running late an only have a few minutes, that you are interested in buying IMMEDIATELY! Don’t tell them what vehicle you’re interested in, tell them the first and only thing you want to know is what they are willing to pay for your trade! Have your absolute bottom dollar in mind when you get this started. DO NOT LET THEM JACK YOU……. around. If they can’t give you a number on your trade in 10 minutes, LEAVE!
5. Be nice!!! But mean business. Don’t fill out any paperwork. Don’t chase squirrels. There’s nothing to talk about until we get a number on the trade!

believe me, there is somebody out there that will do a deal you can live with and your problem vehicle you trade in will only be a bad memory.
See less See more
  • Like
Reactions: 1
you gotta get past your hurt feelings first. Believe me when I tell you, nobody gives a fiddlers f*** about your feelings especially a car dealership. It’s like being pregnant, it’s a done deal. I’m rather certain you don’t know a single sole that’s made near the new car purchases that I have so what I’m saying is, LISTEN UP! You can whine on all the forums you care to and it might make you feel better or potentially worse just wallering in it like a pig in mud.
Your chance is here right now, the last week of the month all those dealers that haven’t met their quota are praying for customers to walk in. Here is a plan that is something to consider.
1. Make a list of what vehicles would be a suitable replacement.
2. Get on cargurus and find the dealerships near you that have vehicles in stock that suit you.
3. Make your way to the stores that have in stock what you might like to buy, Again IN STOCK! There won’t be no bargain on a new order or a locate no matter what the lying ass salesman leads you to believe.
4. As soon as you make contact with a salesman, tell him or her you are running late an only have a few minutes, that you are interested in buying IMMEDIATELY! Don’t tell them what vehicle you’re interested in, tell them the first and only thing you want to know is what they are willing to pay for your trade! Have your absolute bottom dollar in mind when you get this started. DO NOT LET THEM JACK YOU……. around. If they can’t give you a number on your trade in 10 minutes, LEAVE!
5. Be nice!!! But mean business. Don’t fill out any paperwork. Don’t chase squirrels. There’s nothing to talk about until we get a number on the trade!

believe me, there is somebody out there that will do a deal you can live with and your problem vehicle you trade in will only be a bad memory.
Ha! Direct and to the point. Did car sales back when I was much much younger. I know... can only make a deal if the customer is present. I also know I'm not a salesman. What you mention is something I would do when I have absolutely no options left but I too have been around the block and know about buying cars as I've had far too many. The older I get I realize I just like to do business with people I get a good vibe with because I rather lose a few dollars to a friend then give a few dollars to a$$hat.
And I do apologize if I come off as whining on the forums. That is not what I wanted to do. I just have too much time on my hands when I am at home with the babies. They just happen to be napping right now and I have to fill up an hour.... maybe 90 minutes if lucky of my life before they wake up.
Thank you for your recommendation though. That would have been when all options ran out.
See less See more
Ha! Direct and to the point. Did car sales back when I was much much younger. I know... can only make a deal if the customer is present. I also know I'm not a salesman. What you mention is something I would do when I have absolutely no options left but I too have been around the block and know about buying cars as I've had far too many. The older I get I realize I just like to do business with people I get a good vibe with because I rather lose a few dollars to a friend then give a few dollars to a$$hat.
And I do apologize if I come off as whining on the forums. That is not what I wanted to do. I just have too much time on my hands when I am at home with the babies. They just happen to be napping right now and I have to fill up an hour.... maybe 90 minutes if lucky of my life before they wake up.
Thank you for your recommendation though. That would have been when all options ran out.
Ha! Direct and to the point. Did car sales back when I was much much younger. I know... can only make a deal if the customer is present. I also know I'm not a salesman. What you mention is something I would do when I have absolutely no options left but I too have been around the block and know about buying cars as I've had far too many. The older I get I realize I just like to do business with people I get a good vibe with because I rather lose a few dollars to a friend then give a few dollars to a$$hat.
And I do apologize if I come off as whining on the forums. That is not what I wanted to do. I just have too much time on my hands when I am at home with the babies. They just happen to be napping right now and I have to fill up an hour.... maybe 90 minutes if lucky of my life before they wake up.
Thank you for your recommendation though. That would have been when all options ran out.
that wasn’t a plan for when your options run out, that was the get off the couch and find a better option than you might possibly get from them. Because if you go give a few dealers a chance you could possibly do better than you will counting on them to do anything even resembling the right thing. But worse case, you will know what other places that don’t owe you nothing might do in comparison.
The secret to dealing with people, don’t expect much so you won’t be disappointed.
I’ve had problem vehicles from jeep, Chrysler & dodge before and let me tell you they 100% don’t remotely care! The only car company that ever did the right thing with a bad vehicle for me was BMW. I’ve had 3 problem bmw’s all over 100k and they went way out there to make me happy.
that wasn’t a plan for when your options run out, that was the get off the couch and find a better option than you might possibly get from them. Because if you go give a few dealers a chance you could possibly do better than you will counting on them to do anything even resembling the right thing. But worse case, you will know what other places that don’t owe you nothing might do in comparison.
The secret to dealing with people, don’t expect much so you won’t be disappointed.
I’ve had problem vehicles from jeep, Chrysler & dodge before and let me tell you they 100% don’t remotely care! The only car company that ever did the right thing with a bad vehicle for me was BMW. I’ve had 3 problem bmw’s all over 100k and they went way out there to make me happy.
A dear friend who was a hall of fame football coach and a WWII U.S. Marine war hero’s favorite saying was, there are 3 kinds of people in this world. The ones that make things happen, the ones that watch things happen and the most abundant out there, the ones that wonder what the hell happened. Action produces results.
that wasn’t a plan for when your options run out, that was the get off the couch and find a better option than you might possibly get from them. Because if you go give a few dealers a chance you could possibly do better than you will counting on them to do anything even resembling the right thing. But worse case, you will know what other places that don’t owe you nothing might do in comparison.
The secret to dealing with people, don’t expect much so you won’t be disappointed.
I’ve had problem vehicles from jeep, Chrysler & dodge before and let me tell you they 100% don’t remotely care! The only car company that ever did the right thing with a bad vehicle for me was BMW. I’ve had 3 problem bmw’s all over 100k and they went way out there to make me happy.
A dear friend who was a hall of fame football coach and a WWII U.S. Marine war hero’s favorite saying was, there are 3 kinds of people in this world. The ones that make things happen, the ones that watch things happen and the most abundant out there, the ones that wonder what the hell happened. Action produces results.
As far as how dealers and manufacturers treat a customer is a personal experience since your frame of reference and mine will differ. I did not have good experience with BMW... had an E90 coupe back in the day when it was new. Good car, but crappy service. I've had better service with Mercedes, but all the nicety from the dealership doesn't make up for a glitchy car. Currently, the only manufacturer that makes a vehicle my wife wants is the Yukon XL, Suburban, and Wagoneer. Had a preowned Escalade that was literally melting and had to get rid of it so my wife is definitely a no-go on the Escalade. So much plastic in that car just crumbling away. I know, the Escalade, Suburban, and Yukon XL are the same vehicles. So therein lies my problem.
That doesn't mean I won't go seek other options when this horse is dead, but I'm hoping this horse isn't dead.
So I guess I fall into the category of... just watching it happen, as I am lacking that sense of urgency at the moment. Ain't proud of it, but at least I'm going in with my eyes open. And I did check KBB, CarMax and Caravana for the trade value when this all started for a frame of reference. There are probably 10 different ways this thing can go and I just like to have my options ready but I'm not going full-on and losing sleep over any of this.
See less See more
Hi @benoh75 I responded to one of your other posts in a separate thread, but thought I'd drop more detail here for you. While I am in Ohio and suing Ford currently over a brand new vehicle, our scenarios are similar and I thought this might help you in some small way.

I started with Ford and they LIED to me, said I had not case even though the statutes are very clear. Like you and others on here as soon as I mentioned Lemon Law and buy back I was told, here is case number, we are closing this issue, have your attorney call our attorney with XXXXX information. For me, Ford has accepted the buy back after $3500 in legal fees and some other fees the are not willing to cover. So I can take a loss of $3k total or stand on principle and sue them in court. I think its bullshit that a LAW says something and I could take this to court pay thousands more and maybe lose or not get fully reimbursed as Ohio law says I should. We are deciding.

Words of wisdom, document EVERYTHING, who you talked to, at what time and day. Get your service records, bill of sale, dealer invoice, EVERYTHING you signed. I even wrote up a timeline with names and the conversations for my attorney. This allowed him to combat everything the Ford council tried to throw his way.

Its not a fast process, at least in Ohio. We started this in Oct of 2022. This is on a 2021 SUV. They have had it way longer than I have at this point and only had a loaner for about 2 months of the 18 months we had the SUV. Which really sucks for us, I have a big family and we, often, have to take 2 cars to sports functions etc.

I have documented my experiences in more detail on a Ford forum, and while I agree that "whining" won't fix anything, documenting may help other people now or in the future.

Good luck!
See less See more
Hi @benoh75 I responded to one of your other posts in a separate thread, but thought I'd drop more detail here for you. While I am in Ohio and suing Ford currently over a brand new vehicle, our scenarios are similar and I thought this might help you in some small way.

I started with Ford and they LIED to me, said I had not case even though the statutes are very clear. Like you and others on here as soon as I mentioned Lemon Law and buy back I was told, here is case number, we are closing this issue, have your attorney call our attorney with XXXXX information. For me, Ford has accepted the buy back after $3500 in legal fees and some other fees the are not willing to cover. So I can take a loss of $3k total or stand on principle and sue them in court. I think its bullshit that a LAW says something and I could take this to court pay thousands more and maybe lose or not get fully reimbursed as Ohio law says I should. We are deciding.

Words of wisdom, document EVERYTHING, who you talked to, at what time and day. Get your service records, bill of sale, dealer invoice, EVERYTHING you signed. I even wrote up a timeline with names and the conversations for my attorney. This allowed him to combat everything the Ford council tried to throw his way.

Its not a fast process, at least in Ohio. We started this in Oct of 2022. This is on a 2021 SUV. They have had it way longer than I have at this point and only had a loaner for about 2 months of the 18 months we had the SUV. Which really sucks for us, I have a big family and we, often, have to take 2 cars to sports functions etc.

I have documented my experiences in more detail on a Ford forum, and while I agree that "whining" won't fix anything, documenting may help other people now or in the future.

Good luck!
Isn't it funny how you're willing to lose a little bit of money and walk away, but once they start shitting on you you cannot walk away and have to show them a lesson because it's about the principal! Haha... I chuckle at how petty I can be. In your case weren't the lawyer fees covered in your lawsuit?
Luckily, I do document everything. I actually don't use the phone much anymore. Mainly email and text messages. It's a habit of having run a business for many years. No more I said they said, I can just screenshot a conversation, and that ends any disagreements right away.
I am hoping things go fast because here in Texas everything seems pretty straight to the point. But before I start the Lemon process I have to send a formal letter to FCA and give them 30 days to respond so I'm waiting on that first. Sent it a week ago so I have some waiting to do. Wish me luck, and thanks for your words of encouragement.
See less See more
  • Like
Reactions: 1
Ford said we will only cover $2k in attorney fees. This is where I can now take it to court. It's shitty that the LAW SAYS and they are like "well, if you want to spend thousands do it, we already have our costs built into each car we sell".

and GOOD LUCK! I'll keep tabs, just because I am curious to see how you do. I really hope you get everything back.
  • Like
Reactions: 1
I had missed a call this morning from FCA but they did leave a VM for me. According to the VM everything is moving forward and I was notified that I should be receiving a call from the repurchase department in 2 business days. I am happy FCA has decided to move things forward and I'll be a happy camper the sooner this is resolved. Thanks to everyone here providing advice and I'll keep everyone updated as things progress.
I’m happy for you. We still haven’t heard back on our letter, it was received April 11. I’m glad to know they responded via a phone call. We were expecting a certified letter. I am hoping for the same results! Best of luck moving forward!

I had missed a call this morning from FCA but they did leave a VM for me. According to the VM everything is moving forward and I was notified that I should be receiving a call from the repurchase department in 2 business days. I am happy FCA has decided to move things forward and I'll be a happy camper the sooner this is resolved. Thanks to everyone here providing advice and I'll keep everyone updated as things progress.
Received an email this morning from FCA.
"this correspondence serves as a confirmation that Fiat Chrysler Automobiles will offer to repurchase your vehicle under the terms of your states lemon law".
Sounds pretty official to me.

Have to prepare all the documents that they are asking for but it should all be done by tomorrow morning. They are asking for a lienholder payoff within 10 days, so I can assume it be over in the next 2 weeks. Crossing my fingers.

Thanks for listening guys.
  • Like
Reactions: 2
Received an email this morning from FCA.
"this correspondence serves as a confirmation that Fiat Chrysler Automobiles will offer to repurchase your vehicle under the terms of your states lemon law".
Sounds pretty official to me.

Have to prepare all the documents that they are asking for but it should all be done by tomorrow morning. They are asking for a lienholder payoff within 10 days, so I can assume it be over in the next 2 weeks. Crossing my fingers.

Thanks for listening guys.
I sent them all of my documents and it’s taking forever to hear back. They are requesting documents that I already sent. Hopefully it’s smoother sailing for you.
I am seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Received the repurchase agreement from FCA. Lost a few dollars for usage but overall FCA has really stepped up and is taking care of it. No complaints from me so far and will be waiting for the check in the mail next week.
21 - 40 of 40 Posts
Top